tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post111829249309097229..comments2024-03-21T02:16:25.967-07:00Comments on Freethought Weekly: Creationists Attack Zoo With BullshitDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1121584273888684072005-07-17T00:11:00.000-07:002005-07-17T00:11:00.000-07:00Good news, the board decided to scrap the plans af...Good news, the board decided to scrap the plans after a public outcry to the creationist exhibit resulted in a decrease in donations. Way to go Tulsa!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118622593140438542005-06-12T17:29:00.000-07:002005-06-12T17:29:00.000-07:00Hmm...I've actually never heard that criticism bef...Hmm...I've actually never heard that criticism before. I see what you're saying, and I always thought that the nature of the question simply revealed how silly the idea of omniopotence was and wasn't an actual flaw in the argument. However, I'm a physicist, not a philosopher, so I can definitely be wrong. Even if omnipotence is still impossible (from the arguments you mention), I still don't want to be using flawed arguments. I'll look into this, thanks for pointing it out =)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118613664795054912005-06-12T15:01:00.000-07:002005-06-12T15:01:00.000-07:00delta"The rock that cannot be lifted" is a misguid...delta<BR/><BR/>"The rock that cannot be lifted" is a misguided argument. This argument suffers from the logical fallacy of Question Begging because the truth of the<BR/>conclusion is assumed by the premise. That is to say, "a rock so heavy that god cannot lift it" is a hidden assumption that omnipotence is impossible. However, the argument is irrelevant because there are other means to show that omnipotence is contradictory.soihgior44https://www.blogger.com/profile/02430377855074114516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118613123700252502005-06-12T14:52:00.000-07:002005-06-12T14:52:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.soihgior44https://www.blogger.com/profile/02430377855074114516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118453106906860382005-06-10T18:25:00.000-07:002005-06-10T18:25:00.000-07:00Great, I don't mind getting off topic. I was gett...Great, I don't mind getting off topic. I was getting a little weary of the last one myself. <BR/><BR/>"is it so impossible that there's actually an omnipotent being that created stuff?"<BR/><BR/>Actually, the answer is yes, it is impossible. Omnipotence is a attribute that is logically impossible, as this popular argument goes. Could god create a rock that is so heavy that not even he could lift it? If he could create the rock, then he is unable to lift it, thereby making him not all powerful. If he can't create it, then there again, he's not all-powerful. This isn't an insult of course of anyone's diety, it's just that omnipotence is a logically impossible characteristic.<BR/><BR/>If you throw out omnipotence, and then ask if a god could exist, then well that depends. What other attributes does this god have? Some renditions of god <I>could</I> logically exist, although there is no evidence for them. There is nothing against ninja turtles existing in real life. Hell, at least they would be part of the natural world that we've observed, not some supernatural world that has never been observed as existing. But yeah, ninja turtles could technically exist. But does it make sense to believe in them? Does it make sense to dedicate your <I>life</I> to them? Of course not. Same with god.<BR/><BR/>"I mean, if everything's here, and it had to come from somewhere, isn't it as likely something put it here as it that it just came into being"<BR/><BR/>I hear that a lot. For some reason it's assumed that if you say that god created everything, you escape the problem of not knowing how everything began. But you don't, in fact, you just created an even <I>bigger</I> problem because now you have to be able to explain how god came about. If you say that god doesn't need a cause, then I would argue that matter then, does not need a cause.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118430721496101972005-06-10T12:12:00.000-07:002005-06-10T12:12:00.000-07:00Woah, I just realized how old a 10th grader is. S...Woah, I just realized how old a 10th grader is. She can drive for christ's sake. Hmm...perhaps it is time to raise the driving age.<BR/><BR/><I>He hugs me when I have done good</I><BR/><BR/>If I ever feel a squeezing on my chest when no one else is around, I'm going to assume it's a heart attack, not god hugging me.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118430092841721642005-06-10T12:01:00.000-07:002005-06-10T12:01:00.000-07:00For those who want to save the time from checking ...For those who want to save the time from checking that blog out, here is an excerpt from it that will give you the basic idea:<BR/><BR/><I>I love Jesus with all my heart. Ain't nobody going to take my God away. He's Mine, and he loves me. He's my Redeemer, Restorer, Rebuilder, and Rewarder. Jesus is also My father in heaven and he comforts me when I'm sad or hurt. He hugs me when I have done good and he will always love me for ME. AMEN!!!!!<BR/>God Rules!!! Always has, Always will !!!!!</I><BR/><BR/>If you do go though, be nice, she's a 10th grader =)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118428703792284432005-06-10T11:38:00.000-07:002005-06-10T11:38:00.000-07:00Check this Blog out:www.tearsnwounds.blogspot.comI...Check this Blog out:<BR/><BR/>www.tearsnwounds.blogspot.com<BR/><BR/>It's SWEET!!! Add some comments!!! have Fun with it!!<BR/><BR/>~MindyRosalina Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00475548551975852091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118425977041408392005-06-10T10:52:00.000-07:002005-06-10T10:52:00.000-07:00damon said:That's the thing, though. If you believ...damon said:<BR/><BR/><I>That's the thing, though. If you believe in the story of creationism, then you believe that it wasn't just 'some guy in a shack'. You believe that the words came straight from an all-powerful being. <BR/><BR/>That makes all the difference in the world.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes it does. It makes a difference in that believing some all-powerful being dictated crap to ancient sheep herders, takes this from the realm of science and <BR/>Zoos, to religion and Churches. <BR/><BR/>Superstitions like creationism should not be pushed in public, scientific centers like Zoos.Aaron Kinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059982934663353474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118422260050127162005-06-10T09:51:00.000-07:002005-06-10T09:51:00.000-07:00Haha I AM, I've never been to the New Orleans Zoo,...Haha I AM, I've never been to the New Orleans Zoo, but I used to live in Lousiana. In all fairness though, the food is quite delicious.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118422129129680742005-06-10T09:48:00.000-07:002005-06-10T09:48:00.000-07:00Well, I know that they think that it came from an ...Well, I know that they think that it came from an all-powerful being. What I meant was that current-day scientists, with all their equipment, still don't know how everything started. However, the guy in a shack with no electricity and essentially no understanding of the world, supposedly <I>did</I> know, regardless of how he discovered that information. I think that that's funny.<BR/><BR/> And yes, if they did put a description of how storks are involved in the process of how life is made and they were being serious about it and actually trying to convince children that that was the case, then yeah, I would be upset. If everyone knows that it's just a joke then who cares, no one will take it seriously. The problem is when people do take it seriously.<BR/><BR/>And really it's all comes down to proof. If creationists can prove, scientifically, then that would a different story. I would want it in textbooks, at the zoo, and I would be writing about it in a whole different way. But for them it's not about scientific proof, it's about faith. However,faith has no place in the scientific community and certainly not in the scientific method.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118421791948687392005-06-10T09:43:00.000-07:002005-06-10T09:43:00.000-07:00This is mostly off topic, but I had to mention it ...This is mostly off topic, but I had to mention it because this is about zoos. The most disturbing thing I ever saw in a zoo was the "Gumbo Trail" at the New Orleans zoo. They have critters used in Cajun cooking in tanks with recipes for each one next to the tank. I'm not an animal rights activist, but that's just in bad taste (no pun intended).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118416111065795192005-06-10T08:08:00.000-07:002005-06-10T08:08:00.000-07:00As you might imagine, it's not very easy figuring ...As you might imagine, it's not very easy figuring out what happened billions of years ago. Hell, humans have only had electricity for a few hundred years, it's going to take time. The thing about the scienfific origins is that they are subject to change, to new evidence. Someday we'll have better technology or a better grip on science and we will be able to more fully explain the origins of well, everything. It's a matter of time, and it might not ever make sense to everyday people. Our interpretation of quantum mechanics is pretty non-physical and things happen that you really don't expect. Same thing with relativity.<BR/><BR/>The religious explanation is, of course, not subject to change. While scientists today, with their supercolliders and satellites, are unable to determine <I>exactly</I> how things began, some guys living in a shack thousands of years ago knew EXACTLY what happened. That's pretty amazing.<BR/><BR/>As for evolution, it's a better supported theory than the theory of gravity.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118412875879523522005-06-10T07:14:00.000-07:002005-06-10T07:14:00.000-07:00"If George Bush were taking orders from the Vatica..."If George Bush were taking orders from the Vatican, or Billy Graham or someone like that, that's when it would be an issue of 'church and state'."<BR/><BR/> I don't think that the president has to be taking orders from religious leaders for a violation of church and state separation to occur. It is actually interesting to think about how the president <I>might</I> actually be taking orders from these people, however, in a indirect sort of way. Bush wants maintain his voting bloc of the Christian right. He listens very closely to what these people say. And yeah, that looks like pure democracy up close. But then when you pull back a little bit, you see that these voters are pretty much taking what the Vatican and what Billy Graham say as true, often as if it were revealed to them from God. So these two people (and a few other religious big wigs, like Pat Robertson) almost completely control what at least part of the members of the Christian right believe and consequently, how they vote. Well...don't quote me on this argument ever, I thought it would just be fun to throw it out there.<BR/><BR/>"Simply putting up different views of how animals might or might not have come into existance isn't exactly a big 'church and state' issue."<BR/><BR/> We can't put up every single view that someone has when we educate our children. First off, it probably confuses the kid. Secondly, it really just wastes their time on a bunch of bullshit theories and they don't learn the real science as much as they should. <I>Scientists</I> believe in evolution, having successfully completed steps that follow the scientific method. Creationism is not backed by any science whatsoever. None. So who should decide what our kids learn in science classes (or at the zoo, which is supposed to be scientific as well)? Now I guess I'll play devil's advocate, but <I>maybe</I> scientists should! Having a religious person dictate what is taught in a science classroom is like have a ballerina coach the football team.<BR/><BR/> And Rick, thanks. I added a link to your site on my blog listing.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118410156316193172005-06-10T06:29:00.000-07:002005-06-10T06:29:00.000-07:00You'voe got a lovely site update about freethought...You'voe got a lovely site update about freethought. I am currently reading your other stuff. I found your site by following your comment left on my blog. Food way to network.Sloven Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12516092893683964012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118376756313529182005-06-09T21:12:00.000-07:002005-06-09T21:12:00.000-07:00If there are other religious items at the zoo, not...If there are other religious items at the zoo, not sure anything can be done to stop this one. But what we can do as parents is to talk to our own children, and share with them our feelings of religion vs evolution.Anghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027052626297699261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118350124322683562005-06-09T13:48:00.000-07:002005-06-09T13:48:00.000-07:00Creationism belongs in a Church, and evolution bel...Creationism belongs in a Church, and evolution belongs in the Zoo. Simple as that.Aaron Kinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059982934663353474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118341076624688542005-06-09T11:17:00.000-07:002005-06-09T11:17:00.000-07:00I'm not exactly sure what you mean by censorship. ...I'm not exactly sure what you mean by censorship. Religious symbols on public property, paid for by public funds, <I>isn't</I> an issue of free speech. It's separation of church and state. When I said that the fundamentalists were against free speech, it was more in the sense of how they try to declare things "vulgar" and get them banned from TV, the airways, public discourse, etc.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12177833.post-1118332380598421932005-06-09T08:53:00.000-07:002005-06-09T08:53:00.000-07:00Funny, but also alarming. Fundies are emboldened b...Funny, but also alarming. Fundies are emboldened by their victories in the political realm and they are becoming more fundamentalist because of their shrinking numbers (although they still make up a huge amount of the population). <BR/><BR/>What is happening is a polarization. The moderates and lefties are going more left, and the fundies are going more right. Its splitting the country it two: The coastlines in blue vs. the south and middle areas in red. <BR/><BR/>I know what side Im on! Down to fundys! Up with reason! Up with humanity! <BR/><BR/>And down with God!Aaron Kinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059982934663353474noreply@blogger.com